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Post by Admin on Nov 19, 2015 14:46:31 GMT
Ali talked a good game but truly was a sheep in wolves clothing. I could not even create this thread in the "Other Leaders" forum because he was not a leader, only a follower.
How do you guys feel about Ali?
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Post by foundry on Nov 19, 2015 20:41:44 GMT
I'm starting to think he was a foe.. It's actually hard for me to acknowledge that because I love Ali a lot. What a let-down.
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romantic
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Post by romantic on Nov 20, 2015 1:08:57 GMT
He's definitely a follower to an extent. If you watch his interviews from the 60s and 70s, it seems as though he's reading off a script. Like, some of what he says is all Ali, but then the other half sounds like something Elijah would say/has said. It just sort of seems like shock value to get (white) folks talking & to keep his name in the press.
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Post by foundry on Nov 20, 2015 6:30:40 GMT
He's definitely a follower to an extent. If you watch his interviews from the 60s and 70s, it seems as though he's reading off a script. Like, some of what he says is all Ali, but then the other half sounds like something Elijah would say/has said. It just sort of seems like shock value to get (white) folks talking & to keep his name in the press. Most of the things that came out of Ali's mouth was for shock value. I noticed that when he was just around Black people or in a more private setting, he was very quiet and a lot nicer than he was during public appearances. If you compare Ali in private to Ali when he was doing press junkets and all that, it's like he was two completely different people.
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latrell
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Post by latrell on Nov 20, 2015 9:06:29 GMT
I was never really a big Ali fan, there was something about him that rubbed me the wrong way. For one, I always knew he was color struck and that just doesn't sit well with me if you are saying you are pro-black or a black nationalist.
And once I read about how he betrayed Malcolm, that was the nail in Ali's coffin for me. I could understand if he had told Malcolm that he was going to join the NOI and side with them without attacking Malcolm or just staying quite in regards to Malcolm. But the fact that Ali was calling for Malcolm's death when he had just held and played with that man's children speaks volumes about his character or lack there of.
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Post by foundry on Nov 20, 2015 15:32:57 GMT
I was never really a big Ali fan, there was something about him that rubbed me the wrong way. For one, I always knew he was color struck and that just doesn't sit well with me if you are saying you are pro-black or a black nationalist. And once I read about how he betrayed Malcolm, that was the nail in Ali's coffin for me. I could understand if he had told Malcolm that he was going to join the NOI and side with them without attacking Malcolm or just staying quite in regards to Malcolm. But the fact that Ali was calling for Malcolm's death when he had just held and played with that man's children speaks volumes about his character or lack there of.Exactly! It's horrible enough to lose a friend you loved like a sibling, but to have that same person call for your death? I don't think Attallah knows Ali said all those things. Or at least she didn't when she wrote the foreword to the Autobiography.
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romantic
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Post by romantic on Nov 21, 2015 0:36:21 GMT
I kind of give Ali a pass though for all the Malcolm talk because he was only 22/23 at the time and had only been a celeb for a few years. I need to go back and look at his interviews from the 70s and 80s and see if he ever mentioned Malcolm while he got older because I don't remember. It seems like after he died he never spoke of him or his family again. I think befriending Malcolm was probably just another "shock value" for Ali, but who knows.
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Post by Admin on Nov 21, 2015 4:59:49 GMT
If Ali didnt "join" the NOI he would have been a sell out today. The only reason why he isnt considered a sell out is because of the 1 drop rule...
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latrell
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Post by latrell on Nov 21, 2015 5:59:07 GMT
I kind of give Ali a pass though for all the Malcolm talk because he was only 22/23 at the time and had only been a celeb for a few years. I need to go back and look at his interviews from the 70s and 80s and see if he ever mentioned Malcolm while he got older because I don't remember. It seems like after he died he never spoke of him or his family again. I think befriending Malcolm was probably just another "shock value" for Ali, but who knows. Ali doesn't deserve a pass imo. There is no excuse for calling for someone to die who you were just a guest in their home and holding their children etc etc. And it was mentioned in the Malcolm thread on lipstick alley how later in the 70s or 80s Ali called Malcolm a bisexual fagg*t. He only stopped trashing Malcolm when he got sick.smdh
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Post by foundry on Nov 21, 2015 23:53:00 GMT
I kind of give Ali a pass though for all the Malcolm talk because he was only 22/23 at the time and had only been a celeb for a few years. I need to go back and look at his interviews from the 70s and 80s and see if he ever mentioned Malcolm while he got older because I don't remember. It seems like after he died he never spoke of him or his family again. I think befriending Malcolm was probably just another "shock value" for Ali, but who knows. No, he was calling Malcolm "half a fa**ot", bisexual, and other things in his seminars when he would go to colleges. I don't know about the late 70s, but Ali didn't start regretting all that mess until he left the NOI and was diagnosed with Parkinson's. I'm not sure what year this was (could have been the late 70s, 80s, or 90s), but Attallah was still a teen(?) when she saw Ali at some party and was scared to go up to him because she didn't think he would remember her. (So yeah they didn't talk for a long time.) I think she was the one who went up to Ali and he remembered her instantly. I'll try to find a quote, but I believe Ali called her an old nickname and hugged her. What do you mean by "shock value"? If Ali didnt "join" the NOI he would have been a sell out today. The only reason why he isnt considered a sell out is because of the 1 drop rule... How did you get to this conclusion?
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romantic
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Post by romantic on Nov 22, 2015 4:04:07 GMT
I kind of give Ali a pass though for all the Malcolm talk because he was only 22/23 at the time and had only been a celeb for a few years. I need to go back and look at his interviews from the 70s and 80s and see if he ever mentioned Malcolm while he got older because I don't remember. It seems like after he died he never spoke of him or his family again. I think befriending Malcolm was probably just another "shock value" for Ali, but who knows. No, he was calling Malcolm "half a fa**ot", bisexual, and other things in his seminars when he would go to colleges. I don't know about the late 70s, but Ali didn't start regretting all that mess until he left the NOI and was diagnosed with Parkinson's. I'm not sure what year this was (could have been the late 70s, 80s, or 90s), but Attallah was still a teen(?) when she saw Ali at some party and was scared to go up to him because she didn't think he would remember her. (So yeah they didn't talk for a long time.) I think she was the one who went up to Ali and he remembered her instantly. I'll try to find a quote, but I believe Ali called her an old nickname and hugged her. What do you mean by "shock value"? If Ali didnt "join" the NOI he would have been a sell out today. The only reason why he isnt considered a sell out is because of the 1 drop rule... How did you get to this conclusion? I shouldn't have said shock value, but what I mean was, it seemed as though Ali used Malcolm as a come up. I think Muhammad wanted his name in the press while pissing off white people so he attached himself to the most powerful person in the game for his benefit. That fact that Ali turned on him so quickly tells me 1.) he wasn't a genuine friend to Malcolm to begin with and/or 2.) He's a follower and allowed the NOI to get in his ear. I'll go with both honestly. And if what guys say is true as far as him calling a f*ggot up until he had Parkinson's then I just completely give up on him. I thought he was just young, dumb and naive, but if he was older and "wiser" while still saying these things, then I don't even know what to say quite frankly.
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Post by foundry on Nov 22, 2015 20:40:56 GMT
Ali was in his very early 30s by 1970, so you unfortunately can't say he was "young and dumb".
I wonder how Malcolm would have felt about Ali seeing and marrying a 17 year old at 30.
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romantic
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Post by romantic on Nov 22, 2015 21:51:59 GMT
Ali was in his very early 30s by 1970, so you unfortunately can't say he was "young and dumb". I wonder how Malcolm would have felt about Ali seeing and marrying a 17 year old at 30. You're right. I wonder though, if Ali wasn't diagnosed with Parkinson's (and was no longer in the NOI) would he still apologize about the things he said about Malcolm? Malcolm probably would have been disgusted seeing the way he reacted to Elijah's affairs with very young women. Ali's handlers have done a terrific job with sweeping that under the rug.
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Post by foundry on Nov 22, 2015 22:20:59 GMT
Ali was in his very early 30s by 1970, so you unfortunately can't say he was "young and dumb". I wonder how Malcolm would have felt about Ali seeing and marrying a 17 year old at 30. You're right. I wonder though, if Ali wasn't diagnosed with Parkinson's (and was no longer in the NOI) would he still apologize about the things he said about Malcolm? Malcolm probably would have been disgusted seeing the way he reacted to Elijah's affairs with very young women. Ali's handlers have done a terrific job with sweeping that under the rug. I don't think so. He would have still been in the ring into his mid 30s. As far as I know, Ali is very "kumbaya" now LOL. His current wife has done any and everything to help Ali step his game up. She's his handler. Before she came along Ali was in debt or close to it, had a lot of leeches feeding off of him, bad business deals and all that. Lonnie cleaned him up. I also think she helped him improve his relationship with his kids.
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Post by Admin on Nov 26, 2015 0:53:12 GMT
I kind of give Ali a pass though for all the Malcolm talk because he was only 22/23 at the time and had only been a celeb for a few years. I need to go back and look at his interviews from the 70s and 80s and see if he ever mentioned Malcolm while he got older because I don't remember. It seems like after he died he never spoke of him or his family again. I think befriending Malcolm was probably just another "shock value" for Ali, but who knows. No, he was calling Malcolm "half a fa**ot", bisexual, and other things in his seminars when he would go to colleges. I don't know about the late 70s, but Ali didn't start regretting all that mess until he left the NOI and was diagnosed with Parkinson's. I'm not sure what year this was (could have been the late 70s, 80s, or 90s), but Attallah was still a teen(?) when she saw Ali at some party and was scared to go up to him because she didn't think he would remember her. (So yeah they didn't talk for a long time.) I think she was the one who went up to Ali and he remembered her instantly. I'll try to find a quote, but I believe Ali called her an old nickname and hugged her. What do you mean by "shock value"? If Ali didnt "join" the NOI he would have been a sell out today. The only reason why he isnt considered a sell out is because of the 1 drop rule... How did you get to this conclusion? Sellout is the wrong word but I do notice that many "pro black" males wife mixed, extremely light skin "black" women because the one drop rule can mask their self hate.
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